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#203494 - 07/12/2008 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Telpscorei]

Waldtroll
Corporal 1st class
Registered: 17/02/2007
Posts: 66
Loc: Berlin, Germany
I see, thank you.
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#203675 - 09/12/2008 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Telpscorei]

Sphinx
staff sgt
Registered: 03/02/2007
Posts: 176
Is burst penalty maxed out at some point?
I mean, the minimum CTH is always 1%, no matter what the modifiers are, right?
Anyone thought that burst penalty should max out at some point? Various maximum burst penalty values for different guns? Anyone?
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#203701 - 10/12/2008 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Sphinx]

Headrock
The HAMtasticator
Major General
Registered: 30/03/2006
Posts: 7473
Loc: Jerusalem
Quote:
I mean, the minimum CTH is always 1%, no matter what the modifiers are, right?


Yes. The minimum is always 1%. That means that if you fire a 100 round burst, even if you start with no apparent chance to hit, you still will hit with one bullet, statistically. In actuality, the chance to hit your target is even higher, once taking into account how bullet paths work... A lot of hits occur due to the flightpath taking the bullet through the target's tile - this is collateral damage (the same reason why bullets often hit anyone standing between you and your target - but this often causes much less damage than an actual hit due to high CTH.

The bottom line is that no matter how many bullets you fire, there's always a certain chance to hit, even when this formula is allowed to reach 0% (see HAM wink ). Still, I agree with the second part in your argument, that the auto penalty should be "capped" at some point, preferably based on experience level, strength and autoweapons skill. This way a trained soldier cannot completely lose control of their weapon even when firing a long burst.
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#203787 - 11/12/2008 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Headrock]

Sphinx
staff sgt
Registered: 03/02/2007
Posts: 176
I tried the HAM and boy does it kick ass! Finally some drastic and refreshing changes. Highly recommended. And the minimum CTH can be changed by the user! Oh man... this is like an early christmas present. Thank you, Headrock. Good job.
For anyone interested, The HAM: http://www.bookgallery.co.il/JA2PublicPosts/ham.asp
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#220016 - 08/06/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Sphinx]

caf
master sgt
Registered: 06/06/2009
Posts: 263
Loc: Europe, and pitying you.
Are there any solid numbers on how often a psycho character switches to burst fire and how many surplus shots they might fire in full auto?
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#220091 - 09/06/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: caf]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
The chance is calculated like: if (3 + number of aim clicks) = 0, then go psycho.
Which means if you do not aim at all, there is a 25% chance to go psycho. If you aim to 6 clicks, chance is 10%.
Tha's for what I know.
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#220101 - 09/06/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Sandro]

Headrock
The HAMtasticator
Major General
Registered: 30/03/2006
Posts: 7473
Loc: Jerusalem
LOL you forgot to put in the word "random".

Quote:
if (3 + number of aim clicks) = 0


You mean:

Quote:
if Random(3+number of aim clicks) = 0


Or in other words:

Code:
Roll a random number between 0 and (3+number of Aim Clicks)-1 
If it comes up 0, then
   Go psycho.
_________________________
Alright, I'll work for you, damned Capitalist!
-- Ivan Dolvich
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#220105 - 09/06/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Headrock]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
Oh, ups, I am a bit tired and barely see the monitor. Sorry for that. sleep
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Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#221763 - 18/06/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Sandro]

Louist
private
Registered: 14/06/2009
Posts: 8
Loc: Canada
A quick question! Where other skills denote whether they are single level (1) or expert (2), Steathly is denoted by (*). I was wondering what this means? I didn't notice anything in the Wiki about it, either. Thanks!
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#221797 - 18/06/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Louist]

Dieter

lt
Registered: 04/12/2008
Posts: 2626
Hi Louist, some skills you can only take once, such like Ambidextrous or Camouflage, this is what the (1) means.

Other skills you can take twice, this is what the (2) means. Stealth you can take twice, so it should read (2) and not (*) I suppose.

To take a skill twice for your IMP, select it only once at IMP creation, this is a little confusing.
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#221823 - 18/06/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Headrock]

caf
master sgt
Registered: 06/06/2009
Posts: 263
Loc: Europe, and pitying you.
Originally Posted By: Headrock

Code:
Roll a random number between 0 and (3+number of Aim Clicks)-1 
If it comes up 0, then
   Go psycho.

Wouldn't "(2+number of Aim Clicks)" make more sense than "(3+number of Aim Clicks)-1"?
_________________________
Arulco - Not an oppressed nation in need of saviours, but a playground to go people-hunting in: Shoot an Arulcan today, for the lulz!
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#221842 - 18/06/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: caf]

Headrock
The HAMtasticator
Major General
Registered: 30/03/2006
Posts: 7473
Loc: Jerusalem
Quote:
Wouldn't "(2+number of Aim Clicks)" make more sense than "(3+number of Aim Clicks)-1"?


I was illustrating how the game works.

Random(X) = Roll a random number between 0 and X-1.

X is therefore not the highest possibility, but rather the number of possibilities. Since the lowest possibility is 0, the highest is then X-1.
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Alright, I'll work for you, damned Capitalist!
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#229617 - 29/07/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Headrock]

Blue_Fox
first sergeant
Registered: 17/09/2006
Posts: 892
Loc: Netherlands
Back to the Sniper Trait.
My IMP is Sniper Expert, but it seems on a long run it will be a waste of a this double trait.

Question about Merc movement.

I did a test with all merc with the same stat, but different traits.

I seems they all have different movement speed.
The First Lady (Voice1)moved the fastest. How come?


BTW: why is this READ-ONLY and still possible to add some comments?


Edited by Blue_Fox (29/07/2009)
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#230703 - 10/08/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Headrock]

ssd
private 1st class
Registered: 28/07/2009
Posts: 24
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Headrock

Heavy Weapons

  • Increases base Chance-to-Hit with Rocket Launchers by 15%. (2)
  • Increases CTH with launched grenades and other high-angle launchers by 15%. (2)


Auto Weapons

  • Reduces chance to fire "unwanted" extra bullets in auto mode.(2)
  • Reduces Auto/Burst penalty for each Auto/Burst bullet, by 50%. Also works with launched-grenade bursts. (2)


If I have a rifle and put an attachable grenade launcher on it, which skill will be used by firing grenades with this gun, "Auto Weapons" or "Heavy Weapons" ?
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#230708 - 10/08/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: ssd]

caf
master sgt
Registered: 06/06/2009
Posts: 263
Loc: Europe, and pitying you.
Heavy, since the weapon you use is, technically, a "high-angle-launcher".
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#230709 - 10/08/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: caf]

ssd
private 1st class
Registered: 28/07/2009
Posts: 24
Loc: Germany
Nice, thanks! smile
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#230710 - 10/08/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: ssd]

caf
master sgt
Registered: 06/06/2009
Posts: 263
Loc: Europe, and pitying you.
(Hurr durr, at least I think it's a heavy weapon tongue
Naaah, I'm pretty sure. BR's lists them as such even.)
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Arulco - Not an oppressed nation in need of saviours, but a playground to go people-hunting in: Shoot an Arulcan today, for the lulz!
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#230713 - 10/08/2009 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: caf]

Headrock
The HAMtasticator
Major General
Registered: 30/03/2006
Posts: 7473
Loc: Jerusalem
yup.
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Alright, I'll work for you, damned Capitalist!
-- Ivan Dolvich
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#254783 - 24/06/2010 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Headrock]

Fury
private 1st class
Registered: 16/06/2010
Posts: 11
I had trouble getting that Grumm headminer work for me, so I tried various mercs and checked their personality with proedit.

As I read it (and this article) most of the Character Attitude and Personality Traits (like asshole, friendly etc) may not have a direct influence ingame. But its possible they are used to calculate the different Merc-NPC interaction effectiveness values. Mercs like Scully and Thor with a friendly attitude are shown to have "friendly effectiveness" of 200/210 % and Mercs like Fox (appearance Babe) or Brain (extreme attractive) have 300/200 % in recruiting effectiveness etc...

Since you can edit those values without changing attitude/appearance and vice versa, im not realy sure if theres some code calculating those values. But that would maybe explain, how the values for self generated mercs could work. I dont think its just 100% for all 4 categories, but I havent yet found out how to display my mercs hidden atributes with proedit frown
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#254787 - 24/06/2010 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Fury]

Headrock
The HAMtasticator
Major General
Registered: 30/03/2006
Posts: 7473
Loc: Jerusalem
I made the list based on looking at the code. If there's any sort of influence that isn't listed in the opening post, then it's ridiculously well-hidden. I'm not discounting the possibility, but I can't see the effect in the code.

If you want to be sure, you can try editing their personality traits and see if it makes a difference. Just make sure to edit the right thing - If the INI setting "READ_PROFILE_DATA_FROM_XML" = TRUE, use PROEDIT. If it's FALSE, edit MercProfiles.XML instead.
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Alright, I'll work for you, damned Capitalist!
-- Ivan Dolvich
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#254812 - 25/06/2010 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Headrock]

silversurfer
Sergeant Major
Registered: 16/05/2009
Posts: 1514
Originally Posted By: Headrock

Just make sure to edit the right thing - If the INI setting "READ_PROFILE_DATA_FROM_XML" = TRUE, use PROEDIT. If it's FALSE, edit MercProfiles.XML instead.



Shouldn't this be the other way around?
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#254817 - 25/06/2010 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: silversurfer]

Headrock
The HAMtasticator
Major General
Registered: 30/03/2006
Posts: 7473
Loc: Jerusalem
Excuse me, my brain is on "Standby".
_________________________
Alright, I'll work for you, damned Capitalist!
-- Ivan Dolvich
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#258064 - 01/08/2010 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Telpscorei]

Hachiryoku
sergeant
Registered: 13/06/2009
Posts: 132
I'm wondering if ambidextrous adds a bonus after dexterity is applied.
In my games, ambidextrous mercs seem to fix things faster.

Case in point;
Vince and Gasket....Both with a dex of 90. Vince's mech skill was 90 and Gasket's was 99.
Vince repaired things much faster.

I don't think this was intended by Sirtech, but I think they realized it and tweaked characters accordingly to avoid this. I don't think they expected someone to take Vince and train him until his Mech and Dex were in the 90s.

If so, then it wouldn't surprise me that ambidex mercs are better with explosives and medical as well. They are also reliant on good dex.

Dex also affects CTH (H2H, guns and thrown).

Now, this prompts another question. Is the reduced penalty in the code an actual reduction in the 2 pistol penalty, or is it actually applied as a bonus to Dex that generically adds a bonus to hit?

Case in point;
My ambidextrous Fox seems to be a decent H2H fighter.
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#258083 - 01/08/2010 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Hachiryoku]

silversurfer
Sergeant Major
Registered: 16/05/2009
Posts: 1514
Originally Posted By: Hachiryoku

Now, this prompts another question. Is the reduced penalty in the code an actual reduction in the 2 pistol penalty, or is it actually applied as a bonus to Dex that generically adds a bonus to hit?


Non ambidex mercs receive a penalty to CTH when doing dual shots. Ambidex mercs shoot as if they were only shooting a single weapon (that means no penalty but also no bonus for them).


Edited by silversurfer (01/08/2010)
Edit Reason: typo
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#258946 - 10/08/2010 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: silversurfer]

caf
master sgt
Registered: 06/06/2009
Posts: 263
Loc: Europe, and pitying you.
What does the (*) at the stealth skill mean, anyways? Unknown?
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Arulco - Not an oppressed nation in need of saviours, but a playground to go people-hunting in: Shoot an Arulcan today, for the lulz!
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#258963 - 10/08/2010 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: caf]

Headrock
The HAMtasticator
Major General
Registered: 30/03/2006
Posts: 7473
Loc: Jerusalem
Means you get double the benefit if you take two levels in this skill ("expert")
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Alright, I'll work for you, damned Capitalist!
-- Ivan Dolvich
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#277278 - 05/04/2011 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Headrock]

kyrub
corporal
Registered: 21/08/2006
Posts: 39
KNIFING gives you bonus damage when you hit with knife. It is random, 0-15 bonus per trait level.
It is not mentioned in the opening post, it seems.


EDIT: The extra damage never applies to unnoticed (sneak) attack. - Meh.


Edited by kyrub (06/04/2011)
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#283201 - 12/06/2011 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: kyrub]

Blue_Fox
first sergeant
Registered: 17/09/2006
Posts: 892
Loc: Netherlands
Compare Intelligence between Vince & Gasket....
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#296511 - 10/01/2012 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: Blue_Fox]

S0B
private 1st class
Registered: 16/12/2011
Posts: 13
Seems the information here is not up to date, at least when I read the descriptions building my mercs?

I want to know if psycho still has that burst advantage or is agressive the new psycho?
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#296521 - 10/01/2012 Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills [Re: S0B]

DepressivesBrot
Chief Hamster Herder
Major
Registered: 22/07/2009
Posts: 4057
Nope, psycho bonus only applies with old traits.
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