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#256653 - 17/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Gorro der Grüne]

Jinxed
master sgt
Registered: 18/10/2008
Posts: 254
Loc: Land of Skanks and Cottage Pie
@Sandro Yeah, my merc with heavy weapons trait was able to shoot his m79 even though he didn't have enough aps to do so according to the cursor. But It was the cursor which was wrong imo. It said he needed over 60 aps to shoot.
_________________________
The monster is mash potato - Iggy
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#256654 - 17/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Jinxed]

LootFragg
first sergeant
Registered: 27/08/2009
Posts: 563
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Originally Posted By: Sandro
If you would like to remake the email texts, I would gladly implement them.
The language problem still remains. English speaking people... I mean mother tongue, not first foreign language, they will notice grammar errors and wrong vocabulary no matter how often we spellcheck everything. I don't know how good Nickfighter is. But me, even when I'm writing people can figure out I'm German despite me not using "z" and "k" zat often, jawohl! And I've had lots of practice and school education. Like with the German translation, I found lots of mistakes and I could even identify the use of some translation engine, supposedly Babelfish. It just sounds weird if the writer is not totally familiar with the language. That's why I keep emphasizing that we should get a really good English speaker/writer, at least get him to work with us and correct all the weird sounding shit.

Alright, talking about it now I figure I could involve a native bilinguist I keep in touch with. I think Nickfighter and I, we could pre-write the texts as good as we can and have him correct them. Then, once that is done, if there's still anything to correct, we might still get some English prof to check everything. widegrin

Edit: Is STEALING explained in a tutorial or the in-game help? I only knew I could steal stuff from what I had read in the forums. I'm asking because, if it isn't in some help... uh... yeah we should create that help. To help new players and those who don't know about that feature alike.


Edited by LootFragg (18/07/2010)
Edit Reason: You stole it? But that's STEALING!! (Moss)
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#256659 - 18/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: LootFragg]

Minty
sgt 1st class
Registered: 09/07/2009
Posts: 208
Loc: UK
If you want to, feel free to throw the text my way, lads. I only know about a half-dozen words of German, so it'd have to be the translations. I'm a pedantic bugger, so I feel I'm rather qualified to proof-read and correct any Ingrish.. smile
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#256660 - 18/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Nickfighter]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
Originally Posted By: Nickfighter
Originally Posted By: datakurs
A bad guy took my gun from my hands. How can I do the same thing with them?

CTRL+Enemy=Take his armor while he's in front of you

Actually this is no longer possible with STOMP (unless you set Enhanced Close Combat System OFF). You have to beat him down first, then strip him (but now you pay APs per item taken, so no chance to take his whole inventory of 40 items at once)..

Anyway, I've found the bug with Demolitions not actually getting their throwing speed bonus for grenades... will be updated soon.
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#256663 - 18/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

LootFragg
first sergeant
Registered: 27/08/2009
Posts: 563
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Originally Posted By: Sandro
this is no longer possible with STOMP
I love the new close combat system. No need to advertise it, but awh, it's so damn hot. Butt-raping multiple enemies in hand to hand combat is just sweet. Disarming people before you beat the shit out of them is hilarious. Pointless, but hilarious.

Minty saves:
Originally Posted By: Minty
feel free to throw the text my way, lads
Oi oi, mate! I'll do so.
Originally Posted By: Minty
only know about a half-dozen words of German
I know many more.
Originally Posted By: Minty
I'm a pedantic bugger
EXACTLY what I was looking for. Feel free to angrily hate every single sentence I give you, smash it, then put it together in pewfekt Ingwish while muttering something really creepy. That's what I would do. I'll pm you. But don't expect me to be quick.

In a totally unrelated side note... Sandro, could you post the two language files for Minty to proof-read? I've only gotten the bigger one from you. Minty, take your time, it's a lot of text. Took me ages to read through the German one.
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#256664 - 18/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: LootFragg]

Minty
sgt 1st class
Registered: 09/07/2009
Posts: 208
Loc: UK
No worries, Loot mate. Take your time, there's no rush. Besides, it'll stop me going completely insane while I re-jig Possum's old DBB mod for NAS.. smile
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#256675 - 18/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Jinxed]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
Originally Posted By: Jinxed
@Sandro Yeah, my merc with heavy weapons trait was able to shoot his m79 even though he didn't have enough aps to do so according to the cursor. But It was the cursor which was wrong imo. It said he needed over 60 aps to shoot.

No, I meant with grenades and demolitions trait only.. The HW work fine with me so far.
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#256735 - 18/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
There.. new threat started. New fixed version out. Look here.
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#256769 - 18/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: datakurs]

K0ukku
sgt 1st class
Registered: 20/12/2009
Posts: 208
Hello,

I wish to get the best possible JA 1.13 experience now. So what mods are some way compatible now?

1.13 + WF 6.06 (with new mercs and new map)
+ HAM 3.6 (?)
+ STOMP
+ Alpha Item Mod
(+ New Attachment System Beta)?

And could someone post a link where to download the newest SVN (what does this btw mean?).

-Koukku
_________________________
Mercs never die - they just go to hell to regroup
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#256780 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
HAM 3.6 and STOMP are together by now. WF and AIM are compatible. Only New Attachment System is not compatible (yet).

For downloading SVN, you need specific program like TortoiseSVN (freeware). Here you'll find the info.


Edited by Sandro (19/07/2010)
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#256795 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

LootFragg
first sergeant
Registered: 27/08/2009
Posts: 563
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Would be far too troubling for me. I always wait for releases and then play them until I get bored (which doesn't really happen).

Sandro, tiny suggestion. Traits need minimum skill levels. Why not give the Deputy / Squad Leader a minimum experience level as well?
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#256798 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: LootFragg]

GeneralArthur
corporal
Registered: 22/01/2008
Posts: 30
Loc: Potchefstroom, South Africa
I can help with the descriptions and typing of the English text. I am quite proficient and also studied English at University. nerd

Send me the stuff you want typed and whatnot and I'll see what I can come up with. PM me for an email address etc

EDIT: I see you already have someone to help. Still available if you need me.


Edited by GeneralArthur (19/07/2010)
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Never ever bring a knife to a Gun-fight, unless you're late for the boat over the river Styx! luckystrike
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#256804 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: GeneralArthur]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
LootFragg:
Because the level is very expensive, and I'm not sure if the player want to be forced to get higher level on start. (I rather like to see it raising in game.)
The question is... why not to externalize it? smile

GeneralArthur:
Thanks for the offer. However I have nothing right now.
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#256809 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

LootFragg
first sergeant
Registered: 27/08/2009
Posts: 563
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Your offer to grant me as a player power over the minimum stat requirements pleases me. You shall do so. *monocle*

Originally Posted By: GeneralArthur's sig
Never ever bring a knife to a Gun-fight, unless you're late for the boat over the Styx!
playing Stomp with awesomely balanced traits! Cha-chingg!
Except the gunner's assault rifle boost. ò-Ó

rofl
Drop the shard of glass, Sandro, I was just kidding. widegrin ... or was I? *poke* Back away, niggas! He's got a gun! Aaghh!!
Nah, seriously. Great stuff dat and I can still remove it, oi. Don't be mad.
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#256824 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: LootFragg]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
widegrin widegrin widegrin rofl..
Just remove it, OK? smile

So.. externalize minimum requirements for traits.. wrote down.. as a "to-do" feature number 243... alright!
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#256868 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

K0ukku
sgt 1st class
Registered: 20/12/2009
Posts: 208
Okay.

I tried to use the Single Click Installer to install:
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=240116&page=1

HAM 3.6 + WF(maps only) + AIM
- HAM 3.6 Alpha v7
- Wildfire 6.06 Mod - Maps only
- Alpha Item Mod v46 + Mapupdate 20090909

My idea was to install this shit first nice and neatly to JA2 1.13 3329 exe SVN@1210 Full.

Then I would have updated to AIM mod to newest V.50 and and updated STOMP to 1.12.

However, the SCI didnt work (some errors during the unzipping) and I had to install manually HAM 3.6 and WF Maps only.

And as you might have guessed by now the entire thing didnt work out so, please, now I'm asking how to install these properly?

It's quite frustrating to download this mod here and that mode there, one consistent download place would be nice.

Thank you already.
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Mercs never die - they just go to hell to regroup
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#256873 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

lockie
Slasher of Threads ;-)
Major General
Registered: 13/02/2006
Posts: 7060
Loc: Scotland
Try again from the beginning , GOC man's one click install works perfectly , as I just redid it on my wifes laptop !
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Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder .

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#256887 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: lockie]

K0ukku
sgt 1st class
Registered: 20/12/2009
Posts: 208
Well, 7z progam gives me about million "File is broken" messages when I try to unzip SCI_HAM3.6a v7_WF(maps only)_AIM.7z file to the JA2 root folder.I downloaded it twice.

Thou I didnt try if it works, now I will.
_________________________
Mercs never die - they just go to hell to regroup
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#256889 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

Gorro der Grüne
Semitroll by appointment of Shanga I of Deidranistan
lt
Registered: 23/03/2009
Posts: 2814
Loc: Broadwurschd-City
sorry my 7zip didn't have anny problem

may be Your system is bugged
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I don't like users who edit posts after they've gotten an answer.

A lot of people start panicing when told to use their brains

Commander in Croc, OFBA

Founder and Leader of the GDTS
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#256894 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

Headrock
The HAMtasticator
Major General
Registered: 30/03/2006
Posts: 7473
Loc: Jerusalem
Why on earth did you install HAM 3.6 Alpha 7?
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Alright, I'll work for you, damned Capitalist!
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#256895 - 19/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Headrock]

Nickfighter
sergeant
Registered: 07/12/2007
Posts: 141
Loc: Poland
OMG....Okay, uninstall ALL 1.13 related files, then do this http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubb...age=1#Post56723 and at the end, install STOMP 1.1
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#256897 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Nickfighter]

Jinxed
master sgt
Registered: 18/10/2008
Posts: 254
Loc: Land of Skanks and Cottage Pie
We are at stomp 1.12 man, keep up with the times. tongue

@K0ukku

I don't think there is an up to date SCI with wf maps included. I don't think there is any SCIs up to date for that matter.I'm afraid you will either have to do what the instructions say in that thread NickFighter posted.

Anyway, then you would have to go about installing stomp 1.2 and then install full WF or map only...

edit stomp 1.12...


Edited by Jinxed (20/07/2010)
_________________________
The monster is mash potato - Iggy
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#256914 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Jinxed]

K0ukku
sgt 1st class
Registered: 20/12/2009
Posts: 208
I cant understand why you must involve some kind of automatic update software with these mods. Why cant ppl just manually install the mods and updates? Would be 1000x clearer instead of learning how to use software x to use tricky "automatic update " feature.
I used that Tortoise software last Christmas for installing JA2 and cant remember how to use it, or either in the mood to read thousand pages of text again. All that I remember is it wasnt worth the job.

And doesnt that Nickfighter's thread's instruction just tell you how to install the SVN (=1.13 with HAM3.6)?'

@Headrock - Please provide with the latest HAM version then, I downloaded the JA2 1.13 3356 exe SVN@1224 Full, which to my knowledge should include the latest HAM 3.6 with the default setting, which is most of HAM features are off and you have to download a HAM setting file in order to turn HAM features on.


Edited by K0ukku (20/07/2010)
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Mercs never die - they just go to hell to regroup
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#256915 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

Gorro der Grüne
Semitroll by appointment of Shanga I of Deidranistan
lt
Registered: 23/03/2009
Posts: 2814
Loc: Broadwurschd-City
automatic update is for the greedy - (theoretically anny night) whom to You want to pay for the every night update (manually)

it's svn or waiting


pretty easy


Edited by Gorro der Grüne (20/07/2010)
Edit Reason: mistake
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I don't like users who edit posts after they've gotten an answer.

A lot of people start panicing when told to use their brains

Commander in Croc, OFBA

Founder and Leader of the GDTS
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#256916 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

Jinxed
master sgt
Registered: 18/10/2008
Posts: 254
Loc: Land of Skanks and Cottage Pie
Originally Posted By: K0ukku
I cant understand why you must involve some kind of automatic update software with these mods. Why cant ppl just manually install the mods and updates? Would be 1000x clearer instead of learning how to use software x to use tricky "automatic update " feature.
I used that Tortoise software last Christmas for installing JA2 and cant remember how to use it, or either in the mood to read thousand pages of text again. All that I remember is it wasnt worth the job.


Simply because no one can be arsed to create new rars or zips or whatever every single time we get an update. SVN is the current most updated version, all you have to do is connect to it and update it. There is no "thousand" pages of information. It's as straight forward as using an FTP client. If you can't figure out how to do something as simple as that then you have no business on this forum.

Quote:

And doesnt that Nickfighter's thread's instruction just tell you how to install the SVN (=1.13 with HAM3.6)?'


NickFigher just wanted to start you off from the beginning because what you've already done is used and old SCI and then tried to somehow install a mod ontop of it that incorporates a newer version of HAM and is of newer release altogether. JA2 is not the most stable game to begin with, and after that I would be surprised if it even started. Besides, the thread explains how SVN works and how to use it.

Quote:

@Headrock - Please provide with the latest HAM version then, I downloaded the JA2 1.13 3356 exe SVN@1224 Full, which to my knowledge should include the latest HAM 3.6 with the default setting, which is most of HAM features are off and you have to download a HAM setting file in order to turn HAM features on.


Just download Stomp 1.12 and install it on top. After that the wf maps and map update and whatever item mod.





Edited by Jinxed (20/07/2010)
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The monster is mash potato - Iggy
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#256919 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

Scheinworld
first sergeant
Registered: 03/12/2007
Posts: 981
Loc: Baltic Sea, Germany
Hello,

Originally Posted By: K0ukku
Well, 7z progam gives me about million "File is broken" messages when I try to unzip SCI_HAM3.6a v7_WF(maps only)_AIM.7z file to the JA2 root folder.


This problem with the corrupted SCI is solved (at least I hope so ;-)), but as already mentioned the files are a little bit out of date nevertheless playable and worthwhile.

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255067#Post250709


Best regards; Schein…
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Kermi's JA2 archive
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#256937 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Scheinworld]

K0ukku
sgt 1st class
Registered: 20/12/2009
Posts: 208
Thank you for your answers.

I've read these forums about a couple of days of now to get idea what's going on since I havent been here for like six months. I just want to play the game with the mods, not to read twenty threads about JA2, even thou they are pretty interesting. Only reading and no playing makes Koukku a dull boy.
And of course I can use that Tortoise software, no problem. But if you guys wanna attract regular JA2 gamers to this modding thing, the extra third party software may not be the best lure. Then again, new players are quite rare so what's the difference how to distribute new patches. I bought this game 2007 and found it still very fresh and entertaining.

Anyways, Thank you all modders for keeping this game alive, I appreciate your work.

-Koukku
_________________________
Mercs never die - they just go to hell to regroup
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#256940 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

Nickfighter
sergeant
Registered: 07/12/2007
Posts: 141
Loc: Poland
Well, you can use the SCI, but the Tortoise stuff is necessary to have most up-to-date version, which is required to play the newest STOMP.
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#256943 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Nickfighter]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
Yeah, you came here just in the time new STOMP popped up, K0ukku, it's too fresh, and haven't been implemented to any SCI yet. Actually it is planned to be added to the 1.13 main branch, so there will be eventually no need to install this separately.

Well, I just care about creation and coding... not about the distribution.. talk to my manager. (If you ever find him, tell him I would like to meet him as well..)
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#256968 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

K0ukku
sgt 1st class
Registered: 20/12/2009
Posts: 208
Okay. I installed latest JA2 1.13 via SVN and installed STOMP 1.12. Works fine. Now I wanna add the WF maps and AIMV50

Since I installed SVN and STOMP, there's no Data-WildFire6.06 folder in the JA2 root, only Data-1.13 and Data. I recall I must put the WF maps only stuff inside Data-WildFire6.06 folder to Data-1.13 folder in JA2 root, am I correct?

And from the AIM thread 1:

"To get things running, just extract the content of the file to your JA2 Data-Wildfire6.06 folder."

So which folder this is, when I have Data-1.13 and Data?

Sorry for my noobiness.

-koukku
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Mercs never die - they just go to hell to regroup
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#256973 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

Logisteric
i'm the mean and blunt kraut here
Brigadier General
Registered: 05/12/2008
Posts: 6663
Loc: Bär-City
data_1.13 as this one overrulez data
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i know not with what weapons world war III will be fought, but world war IV will be fought with sticks and stones albert einstein
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#256974 - 20/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: K0ukku]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
K0ukku:
You can place everything to data-1.13 and it should work, however once done, copy STOMP 1.12 over it again, you'll however need XMLs for Wildfire mercs. So at the end, put this to your data-1.13 folder.


Edited by Sandro (20/07/2010)
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Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#257040 - 21/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
(So.. filling up the old threat.. )

What about to have 2 Character traits per merc? I was just thinking...

_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#257045 - 21/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

Jinxed
master sgt
Registered: 18/10/2008
Posts: 254
Loc: Land of Skanks and Cottage Pie
I would prefer 2 minor traits... smile
_________________________
The monster is mash potato - Iggy
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#257049 - 21/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Jinxed]

LootFragg
first sergeant
Registered: 27/08/2009
Posts: 563
Loc: Berlin, Germany
I agree. The possibility of having a fourth trait would be great. I'm NOT saying IMPs should get the fourth trait point, although that should be customizable... or maybe cause some penalty or whatever, irrelevant. I emphasize that a fourth trait point could be useful for specializing several mercs and get Dr. Q the Martial Arts and Doctor traits, both of them on "expert". Those are major, but who gives a shit? =D
A fourth trait could refine the merc qualities a bit. With the old 2 trait system, having only one trait just sucked. Having 2 slots filled on 3 available is acceptable. With 4 trait slots accessible, having 3 trait slots is a-ok and more expensive mercs could get the fourth one in order to be more elite than the rest.
By the way, what happened to your idea of granting another trait point when completing a quest / having made progress / whatever? I'd love my IMPs to start with 2 traits and get the third point on reaching ... a higher level of experience or something. Or having a basic major trait and having it go to expert when effectively used. Hey, my "Paramedic" merc just got promoted to "Doctor" after having saved 5 lives and curing a load of wounds. Bazinga! Now add a fourth trait point and - Giggedi!

The 2 character traits idea is pretty nifty, though. It can go pretty far and just adding a second char trait would look awful, so you would have to invest a lot of work into it and rework the system a bit. So leave it for now. hihihi
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#257052 - 21/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: LootFragg]

Nickfighter
sergeant
Registered: 07/12/2007
Posts: 141
Loc: Poland
This would be nice, as having really special and unique mercs is what original JA 2 was missing.
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#257066 - 21/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Nickfighter]

Kaerar
Drifter
Brigadier General
Registered: 13/01/2003
Posts: 6580
Loc: Australia :D
What about traits being unlocked with level. The more experience the better the merc becomes. Some mercs have their traits pre-selected so they unlock as they progress. Others have the ability to choose as the slot isn't filled.

Makes the RPG element more involving wink
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#257071 - 21/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Kaerar]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
Are you sure about this wish? This is not Diablo. You don't gain a "specialization" just in a day. The level already influences everything in game.

I may think about unlocking certain abilities with gaining levels, which are provided by chosen specialization. I.e. if you have chosen Doctor, your bonuses goes up like this:
Level 1: Bonus to bandaging and doctoring +20%
Level 2: Provides better natural regeneration of other mercs (+10%)
Level 4: Can do s the surgery to heal 20% health lost
Leevl 5: Bandaging/doctoring +30% total
Level 6: Can repair damaged stats
Level 7: Surgery heals 35%
...
Level 50: Can revive dead soldiers, can call for divine intervention to strike down all enemies, gain Smite undead ability....

I still don't like this so much. It just doesn't fit to JA2. It's more likely the Baldur's Gate.

For selecting the "perks" for your own.. this also does not fit to JA. Let's say you gained a level in the middle of a game and choose to get Knives-Throwing perk.. such a thing cannot be learned in a 10 minutes. Takes a year practicing.
What I always liked at JA is the fact, that I learn stats through doing those things. I learn explosives by manipulating with them. Even that the other system is also attractive, I would just leave this one with JA.
Or..?
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#257073 - 21/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

silversurfer
Sergeant Major
Registered: 16/05/2009
Posts: 1515
I would leave it as it is. If you unlock traits for a level up what is this gift actually for? You practiced shooting to level up and then chose demolition expert as a trait? Doesn't make sense to me.

If you unlock traits for practice that doesn't make sense to me either.
"You reached rank 70 in leadership - lets give him the teacher trait!"
"Oh, you just reached 70 in explosives - here is the demolitions trait!"
...

You would end up with 5 traits for the skills plus the ones chosen at the start of the game. That's a bit much for my taste.
_________________________
Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN:
https://ja2svn.no-ip.org/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2 1.13 Wildfire 6.06 - Maps MOD
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#257075 - 22/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: silversurfer]

Nickfighter
sergeant
Registered: 07/12/2007
Posts: 141
Loc: Poland
Maybe they would be awarded for SPECIAL achievements + a minimum skill requirement, like auto weapons trait for killing *adequate number* of enemies with auto weapons, the same with gunslinger, heavy and marksman, killing enough people with nades or other stuff, healing nuff guys, et cetera, but the skill and achievement cap would increase with every trait you've got. This could also make traitless mercs (if there are\would be) more useful. If that's not enough, then just increasing the trait limit for some mercs, like the before mentioned Dr Q. Huaong
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#257076 - 22/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Nickfighter]

WarmSteel
first sergeant
Registered: 19/10/2009
Posts: 524
Loc: The safe end of the barrel.
The skills you gain are normal skills such as marksmanship.
Traits are just things you have talent for, this isn't going to change imo.
Also, some static things and some RPG elements is a nice variation.
_________________________
"O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade, that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy."
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#257090 - 22/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: WarmSteel]

Jinxed
master sgt
Registered: 18/10/2008
Posts: 254
Loc: Land of Skanks and Cottage Pie
If you could add or take away trait points via ini it would be very nice. If someone wants to go solo on insane it's their choice. Personally I would like another minor trait point...

But there isn't really that much room to expand sandros system before it become a full on class based action RPG system.

Then again, arguing that things are not realistic is moot imo. Fallout had one of the most playable systems ever, was it realistic? Hell no, enjoyable? Like going bare back with Megan Fox.

Silent Storm's system wasn't that bad either. Now I know that it's not exactly what JA2 is, but it has been around for over 10 years and here we are possibly deciding its future. Is it evolution? Or is this going too far?
_________________________
The monster is mash potato - Iggy
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#257143 - 22/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Jinxed]

WarmSteel
first sergeant
Registered: 19/10/2009
Posts: 524
Loc: The safe end of the barrel.
I think Sandro's system is already very elaborate. There are more traits than you could possibly put in one squad.
I see no need to expand it further to be honest.
Just a bit of fine-tuning, perhaps (although I like it the way it is just fine).
_________________________
"O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade, that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy."
Top
#257188 - 22/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: WarmSteel]

LootFragg
first sergeant
Registered: 27/08/2009
Posts: 563
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Originally Posted By: Sandro
The level already influences everything in game.
Lol. Just what I was thinking and preparing to say.
Originally Posted By: Sandro
unlocking certain abilities...
Lovely idea. Level 50, here I come! Lvl50 Stealth means merging with the shadows and summoning fog, Lvl50 Heavy Weapons gets you a mail from Barack Obama who supports you with his arsenal. Lol. Lvl50 teaching gets you a ridiculously low salary and an unstable job at the still destroyed Cambria university, due to our severely cut educational budget.
Originally Posted By: Sandro
It just doesn't fit to JA2.
There it is, the most ambivalent topic about JA2. Stay true to the original that got so successful or experiment and try new ways? I wouldn't want the game to feel like Diablo 2 either. But gaming history has proven the fact that players love developing their avatars, in JA2 that means improving stats. It's not the number one main aspect of the game, but one of the biggest. It keeps the game alive and interesting and gives you one more reason to play it again and again even if you already know the story.
Originally Posted By: Sandro
such a thing cannot be learned in a 10 minutes. Takes a year practicing.
Same applies to leveling, I suppose. In one month of service, a merc gains years of experience. If that's your problem, then don't apply the selected trait until certain events have happened, like gaining more skill points, so you're setting a goal which the merc then has to achieve:
Originally Posted By: silversurfer
You practiced shooting to level up and then chose demolition expert as a trait?
Take this example. You've leveled up, choose to become a demoman and have that trait greyed out with a certain requirement - Have a minimum explosives level, gain 50 trait score points by handling explosives, throwing grenades and dealing damage with them. After 20 days of grenade juggling you get some cool LvlUp sound and you receive your desired trait. Wooosh!
Originally Posted By: silversurfer
If you unlock traits for practice that doesn't make sense to me either.
Neither to me. Traits are supposed to show specializations, what mercs are particularly good at and unlike skills, traits can't be improved. That's why the whole idea of unlockable traits feels so wrong to most of you, I think. Nevertheless, there are possible limitations like the mentioned requirements. Additionally, the merc data could contain information about which traits are or aren't available for the merc to choose. And I don't see why an intelligent and constantly teaching merc wouldn't have the chance to become an even better teacher.
Originally Posted By: Nickfighter
SPECIAL achievements + a minimum skill requirement
Exactly. Only not bound to single achievements, but basically lots of circumstances like shots fired, suppression created... okay, that would need more data to be stored, same problem as with the laptop data thread. But it would drastically help balancing everything. If half of your trait xp is gained by killing, this will lead to exploits and typical frag stealing behaviour.
Originally Posted By: WarmSteel
some static things and some RPG elements is a nice variation [...] I think Sandro's system is already very elaborate.
Agreed. It's interesting to see the effect, though. And we're not discussing the elimination of the current system, but new ideas that can be worth testing. It's an experimental thing going on here, this doesn't have anything to do with solid improvement, it can rather add more depth potential to the game. I have to say, I love the creativity stage where everybody just joins in and shares his mind, even if it always sounds a slight bit awkward, because it's all fairytales and reverie and far away from the original game, but that's what the logical stage is for, where everything gets channeled, refined, filtered and fit to the game. I still remember that uproar when Sandro wanted to take the +10% CtH bonus away from psychos. No way! How could he possibly do that?

There's one thing I know about this community. There are lots of stupid ideas flying around, most of them coming out of my mouth, but through meaningful dialogue we pick the best pieces and put them together to one beautiful mod cake. And Sandro's got a pretty good oven and some baking talent. If an idea is bad, it won't make it. If I suggested putting trainable pets in there that only obey to their befriended mercs and have these mercs send their pets into combat while gesticulating wildly and wearing really bad haircuts, don't be afraid that JA2 will finally feature pop music and subtitles only available in Japanese. But it might lead to somebody picking up the idea of adding some sort of friend/foe behaviour to the AI that is not based on the fraction you belong to, leading to militia only shooting the merc who shot them in the first place in retaliation rather than killing every living being on the planet... etc. It's not about the content, but the idea behind it. Well, and then about the content. Roflpofl.

LòÓtFrg
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#257192 - 22/07/2010 STOMP v2 ???!!! [Re: Jinxed]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
Anything is possible.. it only takes time and effort.
...
Just had to comment...
I kinda don't want to follow and copy Fallout's way or any other game's way.
I also am not very opened to break the whole system just because one merc (Dr.Q).
What I think is, that the game now needs to expand its mechanics - posibilities and usability of current attributes/skills.

Lets leave the skill traits as they are now... look at other things...
What about this: Separate 0-100 scaled attributes from less important attributes. Make the less important attributes based on something like "profficiency" levels. Probably expand the remaining 0-100 scale based attributes.
One problem still is, that certain attributes/skills are incomparable with others concerning their importance - like medical vs marksmanship. Why not to create another group of merc properties? Something like...

----------------------------------------------------
"Soldier's composition"
----------------------------------------------------
---- Experience: ----
Level 1-10
----------------------------------------------------
---- Attributes: ----
Health 0-100
Strength 0-100
Agility 0-100
Dexterity 0-100
Perception 0-100 (Focus, good eyes, ears; affects shooting, interrupts, lot of things))
Wisdom 0-100
Marksmanship 0-100
Leadership 0-100
---- Can be profficient at: ----
Medical 0-2
Explosives 0-2
Lockpicking 0-2
Repairing 0-2
Stealth 0-2
Driving 0-2
Survival 0-2
Discipline 0-2
--------------------------------
--------------------------------

Explanation of profficiencies:
--------------------------------
Medical:
0 : can only bandage (not dying) mercs, with penalties and a small chance to actually hurt someone
1 point: Can bandage normally, even dying soldiers
2 points: Allowed treatment (doctoring) assignment

Explosives:
0 : can only try to set simple mines, with penalty
1 : can place mines and bombs normally (door bombs included)
2 : Can attach detonators( also create from nightwatches and wires), disarm bombs and mines

Lockpicking:
0 : cannot lockpick anything at all, only examine doors for traps
1 : can lockpick doors (based on exp level and difficulty of lock), but not electronic locks
2 : can untrap doors, basic lockpicking gets better, can unlock electronic locks

Repairing:
0 : can only repair items with 60+% status to 90% status, with repair difficulty 0 or easier, slow speed
1 : can repair (electronical) items with 30+% status to 95%, with repair difficulty not under -4, normal speed
2 : can repair items on any status to 100%, also electronic items, robot, vehicles, fast speed

Stealth:
0 : cannot move silently, camouflage has 70% effect, moving reduces camo/cover effectiveness drastically, makes more noise overally
1 : can move silently, camo has 85% effect, movement reduces camo/cover effect normally, makes normal noise, but certain actions are still lod(climbing on/off roofs, jumping fences, running, swimming etc)
2 : can kill completely silently (bare hands/knife), camo effectiveness full, cover bonus

Driving:
0 : can drive, but slowly and damages the car from time to time, cannot drive offroad
1 : can drive normally, although if driving off road the car is damaged from time to time
2 : can pilot helicopter (muhaha), and everything drivable, even tanks

Survival:
0 : loses a lot more energy when traveling outside the cities, sometimes get even slightly hurt, can regain energy only to 60% status if sleeping in the wilderness
1 : loses energy normally when travelling, can only regain energy to 80% if sleeping outside
2 : can regain full energy, also helps others with 0 Survival in the squad (reduces slightly their penalties)

Discipline:
0 : firing scares the shit out of you - suppression is very effective on you, morale cannot go higher than 80%, all your negative traits(form personality or disability) have higher effect
1 : medium suppression effectiveness for you, morale can go to 100%, negative features of your character have normal effect
2 : has suppression tolerance bonus, all positive features of your character are higher, practicing/student assignments go faster

----------------------------------------------
---- Effects of Skill Traits: ----

Generaly Skill Traits would remain almost the same, or at least their core. Certain proficiencies would get bonus from Skill Traits, and certain Skill Traits would have minimal proficiencies to be picked up (minimal requirements).
Paramedics need Medical at least 1, Doctors at least 2..
----------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------
---- Gainig proficiencies: ----

There are several ways on my mind how to become proficient at something, I am not sure about this yet..
1) You choose some at creation, then gain them automatically when doing respective actions
2) You choose some at creation, then learn them at certain facilities (specially designed for it)
3) You choose some at creation, then choose one new at every gained exp level
...

I like the idea #2, maybe combined with #3.

----------------------------------------------

Well, of course the game mechanics would have to be rebalanced. This is a very rough concept, just what came to my mind now. There could be more levels of proficiencies.. or not.
If anyone would like this and be enthusiastic enough.. All this is within my capabilities. I would need help though. Mainly it would have to be worked to a very good concept.

It would be a bold project indeed. If enough people would join and create it.

Also, nice thing, if we would add to the game more mechanics and stuff to make playability wider - more explosives (satchels, triggered grenades, more powerful grenades etc.), (almost) permanent damages to items, injuring body parts, grapple checks, enhanced interrupting... whoa... I rather stop here..
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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#257194 - 22/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: LootFragg]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
Originally Posted By: LootFragg
But gaming history has proven the fact that players love developing their avatars
Yeah. God knows, that if JA wouldn't have the character improvement element, I would probably never play it. But now! You know what's better than building up your char? Building up the ENTIRE GAME! Muhahahahaaaaaa... .. .. oh.. eh.. nevermind.

Anyway, lead this game element to some ultra-sophisticated system would be cool. Include specific "favorite weapon"... weapon knowledge for general.. whatever. Anyone played Thwe Witcher btw?
Originally Posted By: LootFragg
Take this example. You've leveled up, choose to become a demoman and have that trait greyed out with a certain requirement - Have a minimum explosives level, gain 50 trait score points by handling explosives, throwing grenades and dealing damage with them. After 20 days of grenade juggling you get some cool LvlUp sound and you receive your desired trait. Wooosh!
I like that!

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
Only not bound to single achievements, but basically lots of circumstances like shots fired, suppression created... okay, that would need more data to be stored, same problem as with the laptop data thread. But it would drastically help balancing everything. If half of your trait xp is gained by killing, this will lead to exploits and typical frag stealing behaviour.
In fact, I solved the problem with adding many new variables, and they fit to be used for this feature as well. Quite perfectly actually.

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
I have to say, I love the creativity stage where everybody just joins in and shares his mind, even if it always sounds a slight bit awkward, because it's all fairytales and reverie and far away from the original game, but that's what the logical stage is for, where everything gets channeled, refined, filtered and fit to the game.
I also love it when it starts to roll. Brainstorming they call that, I can see why...

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
I still remember that uproar when Sandro wanted to take the +10% CtH bonus away from psychos. No way! How could he possibly do that?
Haha. Me too. It was +15% btw. And I left it there - if you choose old traits that is.. oups! Spoiler...

[quote=LootFragg]But it might lead to somebody picking up the idea of adding some sort of friend/foe behaviour to the AI that is not based on the fraction you belong to, leading to militia only shooting the merc who shot them in the first place in retaliation rather than killing every living being on the planet... etc. I
rofl! widegrin
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
Top
#257195 - 22/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

silversurfer
Sergeant Major
Registered: 16/05/2009
Posts: 1515
Originally Posted By: Sandro
Originally Posted By: LootFragg

Take this example. You've leveled up, choose to become a demoman and have that trait greyed out with a certain requirement - Have a minimum explosives level, gain 50 trait score points by handling explosives, throwing grenades and dealing damage with them. After 20 days of grenade juggling you get some cool LvlUp sound and you receive your desired trait. Wooosh!


I like that!


This would still need a lot of restrictions. Only x traits should be allowed this way. Otherwise you could train your IMPs so they have a trait for each skill and/or attribute.
Also they shouldn't be allowed to take any trait at the start. You should have to work for them. Otherwise you would end up with a group of supermen which all have the same abilities.

What about mercs? They have to have some traits at the start. Traits were always something to characterize a person. If they could learn anything, what makes them special?

I would rather stick to a system then where you have to think in advance and chose traits and mercs wisely.
_________________________
Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN:
https://ja2svn.no-ip.org/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2 1.13 Wildfire 6.06 - Maps MOD
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#257198 - 22/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: silversurfer]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
That I like it still does not mean I'll do it, so easy... smile
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
Top
#257210 - 22/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: Sandro]

LootFragg
first sergeant
Registered: 27/08/2009
Posts: 563
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Fuck, you're just too fast. I'm just too slow and it's just too warm around here.
Originally Posted By: Sandro
There could be more levels of proficiencies.
That's what I was going to write before having read this line and I still will, go to hell! =D

Oh, I love it, like almost always. But I think 3 levels are a bit too few. Medical for example. I know it's hard to make more skill levels if they don't only multiply values like +20% speed, +40% speed..., but I still think it should look a slight bit more like

Medical:

0 : Can't do anything medical aside from horrificly slowly bandaging light wounds of conscious mercs. Everything else causes chaos. This is for people who are not intended to serve as medics. Gasket?

1 : Can slowly bandage others' wounds unless they're knocked out or critically wounded. Doesn't harm others that often when caring for their wounds.

2 : Can bandage himself and others, is slower when bandaging critical wounds or himself. Can work even when mercs have fainted. Regular first-aider, no risk of causing health damage.

3 : Can treat all kinds of wounds, even of dying mercs, and is faster doing so, like normal, can nurse patients, but is really inefficient. Can opt to learn the Paramedic trait if you want to integrate that feature. Takes a bit less APs for starting first aid.

4 : Is a good healer, but still slow at nursing. If 3 is the basic paramedic, 4 is just better. If having Paramedic trait, can now perform bad surgeries with risk of dealing high status damage.

5 : Fast at bandaging, average at nursing, can only get here if having chosen the holy path of the Paramedic lol. Surgeries still suck, but regularly heal an average amount of HPs. Can choose to become a friggin' Doctor.

6 : Dying mercs get bandaged as fast as normally wounded mercs. Restores a small amount of lost stamina up to a certain limit (+8 points if <20% for example) on critically wounded mercs. More HPs on surgery, less breath loss when doing so, less status damage if it fails. Even less APs needed for starting bandaging.

7 : Is pretty awesome as a medic, restores stamina up to higher values (not much though), can cure status damage when nursing, but not more than 10 points per merc, whatever. If Doctor already, surgery works well, increases natural regeneration, but negligible.

8 : Needs to be a Doctor in order to get here. Is a speedo at bandaging and gets severely wounded mercs up quickly by restoring a percentage of lost stamina (up to...). Real value is at doctoring, can heal more stat points, doesn't take ages for doing so, is decently fast and surgeries always work out well, even when still draining fatigue like always.

9 : Unlimited stat healing, bigger natural regeneration bonus, surgeries heal a good amount while draining less medical bag ressources. Basically a number one top medical merc.

10 : Ultimate level, because stopping at 9 sucks balls. Good regeneration bonus even on working mercs (still negligible), surgeries are an epic win as they drain only a small amount of fatigue.
If Diablo 2: Can revive dead corpses using CPR, can throw shuriken shaped like the Red Cross, can lure Pacos and give him a flu shot he won't ever recover from, then tell Fatima he died of throat cancer or something.

/Medical

This is very detailed, I agree. Make it less, I don't mind, but I just don't want such a skill to consist of 3 levels only. Less levels means more importance, but also far higher thresholds. I can either help a great deal or I'm a loser. This would equalize mercs who are otherwise different from each other in that field. MED 30 or MED 60? I don't care, you're all level 1. For example.

Also, more game mechanics stuff... if I was gay and you were a woman - it would still be a good idea... I don't even drink, wtf!

Originally Posted By: Sandro
Building up the ENTIRE GAME! Muhahahahaaaaaa...
Probably the reason why I'm serving as a mindless slave instead of actually playing. That's like cooking. Which I don't. And making plans to rule the world. It's just fun.

Originally Posted By: silversurfer
If they could learn anything, what makes them special?
Originally Posted By: LootFragg
the merc data could contain information about which traits are or aren't available for the merc to choose.
Gasket can't become "Paramedic". He can become "Demolitions" expert though. Michael Dawson can increase his "Paramedic" skill to "Doctor", but he will never become a "Squad Leader". See? They're still roughly defined, but nevertheless have more options so I can choose to integrate Ice Williams into my sneak-ops crew rather than going for machine gunning expert.

Originally Posted By: Sandro
That I like it still does not mean I'll do it, so easy...
I can send you pictures of cute kitten I took in Ireland. Then I can tell you what could happen to these innocent beings if you don't do it. But I won't. Because you will comply. I'm just kidding of course. Or am I? DO IT! No pressure. Not if you don't like kitten anyway. rofl.

---
Edit - Game Mechanics oi

Originally Posted By: Sandro
(almost) permanent damages to items
How about a sort of mechanical surgery? This gun's permanently damaged by 25%. Do you want your super elite technician-like merc to rebuild it from scratch using all the tools he's got available? Warning: Could destroy the gun even further and will use up most of your tool kit. --> Yeah, make it shine again! / Nah, drop shit to Ira and take another gun.
Weapons and items should only get permanently damaged if hit by explosives or bullets or something. Alien spit would make this even more likely. Common fire already decreases the gun's status, perm damage would just be a bit too harsh there.

Originally Posted By: Sandro
grapple checks
Wuddawuddawaitasecond. You mean like... ninja kind of shit? Awh damn, son. You is makin' my day, nigger! How about reducing available APs if failed an added hand to hand check (executed at the start of a turn) when standing next to a melee fighter? Makes running away harder. What about performing such a check with a martial artist around upon receiving a movement order. If it fails, sucks up APs and leaves person in place. Running far away is more likely than just moving a tile. That means enemies are less likely to just step back a tile and shoot the kung fu king in the head (see close combat penalty for firing a gun), whereas they're allowed to run away like mad and not turn around. Not only is this relevant gameplay-wise, but also pretty natural. If you're wrestling with some trimmed Asian fist-through-brick monk and just step away 3 steps, he will definitely follow you and step on your head. Why would he wait there? On the other hand, if you're just using all your force to make a dash forward and run as fast as you can without turning around, it's a matter of who's faster. If you get slower, trying to turn around and take aim, he'll use the time to take a dive into your face. Remember: Asians are evil.

By the way, higher chance of smashing an enemy away from you if you're a leet kung fu pro? I just love that animation, made me freak out once when I snuck behind an enemy guard, did my jedi force spin kick to the head and just wiped the fucker off this world in one elite blow, knocking him backwards a tile, leaving him in a blood patch. Far cooler than just seeing him collapse.


Edited by LootFragg (22/07/2010)
Edit Reason: Oi oi!! Edit!
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#257227 - 23/07/2010 Re: STOMP v1.1 Release !!! [Re: LootFragg]

Sandro
first sergeant
Registered: 01/11/2008
Posts: 951
Loc: Mars
Originally Posted By: LootFragg
Oh, I love it, like almost always. But I think 3 levels are a bit too few. Medical for example. I know it's hard to make more skill levels if they don't only multiply values like +20% speed, +40% speed...,

Exactly. That's what I want to avoid.

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
Medical:
0 : ... 1:...2:...10:....

Well if you mixup skill traits with this, then it can go to 10th level, yeah. But consider that you would have to have specialized trait for every profficiency and vice versa. And we don't have that, and as I said.. let's leave what I was working on the past era(the traits) alone for now. The traits are good. You can be damn (Kung Fu + Jiu Jitsu + Muai Thai) master, or not?! You can. Enjoy it. If you wnat me to throw everything I've done so far away... well.. then you shall never see me here again, I promise. smile

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
This is very detailed, I agree. Make it less, I don't mind, but I just don't want such a skill to consist of 3 levels only. Less levels means more importance, but also far higher thresholds. I can either help a great deal or I'm a loser.

Now I am going to say something important: Look at the concept as a whole..
Look at it again. I had a good reason to make only 3 levels. Medical can be made more complicated, but others hardly. This is because the game mechanics around medical care provide more possibilities to play with. Which is mostly because of doctor trait by now.
I would only think about 3 or 4 levels, no more. 4 levels mean zero level + 3 levels of actual knowledge - simply three Es - elegant, efficient, ... ya know.

The point was to bring some other system into the game. We have Exp level, attributes which raise when doing things, traits which are chosen at the beginning as specialization, and this is something else. The higher threshholds can be nice. You actually value your one dot in Stealth, because you can move smoothly. This is similar to traits. If you make it from 1-10 you get close to the way: " what level of medical this merc has? Bah, who cares, something between 1 and 5." The differences between levels, the threshholds can be actually very good.

As said, I could imagine 4 levels, maybe. It still brings troubles. Also imagine the graphical representation: not number, but a coloured/empty dots aside the proficiency names.

Simplicity is the mother of genius.

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
Also, more game mechanics stuff... if I was gay and you were a woman - it would still be a good idea... I don't even drink, wtf!

Heh.. uh.. what the hell are you smoking? smile

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
Originally Posted By: Sandro
That I like it still does not mean I'll do it, so easy...
I can send you pictures of cute kitten I took in Ireland. Then I can tell you what could happen to these innocent beings if you don't do it. But I won't. Because you will comply. I'm just kidding of course. Or am I? DO IT! No pressure. Not if you don't like kitten anyway. rofl.

Haha.. I have actually six cats in the house. Three kittens are just now trying to annihilate this entire room. smile

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
Originally Posted By: Sandro
(almost) permanent damages to items
How about a sort of mechanical surgery?

That's what I meant. I designed some concept of enhanced repairing some ages ago.

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
Originally Posted By: Sandro
grapple checks
Wuddawuddawaitasecond. You mean like... ninja kind of shit?

Yeah. Headrock did a nice design for it. In fact pretty the same as my own idea.

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
Remember: Asians are evil.

Tell me about it. smile

Originally Posted By: LootFragg
I just love that animation, made me freak out once when I snuck behind an enemy guard, did my jedi force spin kick to the head and just wiped the fucker off this world in one elite blow, knocking him backwards a tile, leaving him in a blood patch.

Yeah, I love it too. ... and I just did it right now. If you kill a soldier as martial artist/HtH with punch, he falls back (if not wall there or something).
_________________________
Maker of improved IMP creation, New Trait System (aka STOMP), Alternate Weapon Holding, Improved Interrupt System, also added several animations etc.

Consider me as a "modder on retirement". No guarantees on more features from me.
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