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#152552 - 10 August, 2007 02:41 AM Big Maps Project
lalienxx
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Hi all

The goal of the project is to increase the tactical map size. For now the biggest map can have 160x160 tiles , after the project is completed the map size can be really big (about 46340x46340 tiles).

An alpha exe is now available for testing here: http://81.169.133.124/~lalien/release/New_exes/ (BM in index). The savegame format is not compatible, you'll have to start a new game.
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#152557 - 10 August, 2007 03:33 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
Slax

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Hahaha, you could model a whole country on a 46340x46340 map \:D

I'll definitely be trying this out.
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#152558 - 10 August, 2007 03:39 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Slax]
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 Originally Posted By: Slax
Hahaha, you could model a whole country on a 46340x46340 map \:D

That would be 289 x 289 of the old 160*160-tile maps, surely that would be enough to put the whole of Arulco into such a big map ;\)

But mortars could become much more interesting ;\)
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#152562 - 10 August, 2007 03:52 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Starwalker]
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Everything could become much mroe interesting .... except hunting down the remaining soldiers that are fleeing \:D

So with this we'd get all kind of map sizes right? SO biggest maps would be used for town sectors, then the importance of the sector will decide on how big the map should be ... or will all the map have to be the same size?
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#152565 - 10 August, 2007 04:00 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Majek]
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 Originally Posted By: Majek
Everything could become much mroe interesting .... except hunting down the remaining soldiers that are fleeing \:D


Yes without a system which can locate even approximatively the last few soldiers, it can be really boring.


Edited by Sleepyfox (10 August, 2007 06:08 AM)
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#152566 - 10 August, 2007 04:01 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Majek]
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They /should/ be about the same size if the are next to each other, because otherwise there would be logical errors that would cause the player to shake his head in disbelief.

In other words, maps of different sizes would lead to gaps and/or overlaps on the worldmap, which is not good.
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#152570 - 10 August, 2007 04:26 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Majek]
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 Originally Posted By: Majek
will all the map have to be the same size?


No, variable map size will be possible.
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#152571 - 10 August, 2007 04:40 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Starwalker]
lalienxx
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 Originally Posted By: Starwalker
They /should/ be about the same size if the are next to each other, because otherwise there would be logical errors that would cause the player to shake his head in disbelief.

In other words, maps of different sizes would lead to gaps and/or overlaps on the worldmap, which is not good.


The world map has nothing to do with the tactical map size, so there will not be any technical problems. And the size of the tactical map should not be taken as a real sector size, much more as "mission area" or "most important area" in the sector.

For now we have sector size of 160x160 meters, this means that whole Arulco is 2560*2560 meters (2,5km) big. After the change we'll have 46340x46340 per sector (46km) and the possible Arulco size of 741*741km.
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#152573 - 10 August, 2007 04:56 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
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i could imagine such huge maps would require broader tileset selections as otherwise maps might become repetitive... there has been a request around to get rid of tileset alltogether and use any tile in any map. I could imagine that this request would fit your project somehow

this is sounding extremely exciting. looking forward to how this devlelops
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#152584 - 10 August, 2007 07:55 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: the scorpion]
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I concur about the worldmap versus tactical map size. It takes less than a minute game time to cross a tactical map but over an hour to get between outdoorsy sectors and 5 minutes for city sectors.
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#152808 - 12 August, 2007 08:37 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: SpaceViking]
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incidentally, is there any bigger maps done somewhere?
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#152812 - 12 August, 2007 08:42 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
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 Originally Posted By: Kermi
incidentally, is there any bigger maps done somewhere?



Not yet that I am aware. This was just made available so there could be. So why don't make us one? ;-)
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#152815 - 12 August, 2007 09:29 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Marlboro Man]
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weeell..... the norm map editor allows making ridiculous sized maps? \:\)
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#152818 - 12 August, 2007 10:06 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
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As soon as there's a good editor for big maps available (preferably an update to the current standard editor), I'll start mapping... already have some great ideas for bigger maps, like better fortifications and if irregular maps are supported also long/narrow maps (maybe 80*1000 for that nice arcade-style ;\) )

So much new stuff to test here... the Linux build, the big maps build, the latest from SVN... has anyone seen my coffee machine lately? \:D
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#152833 - 12 August, 2007 12:46 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: moki]
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#153955 - 21 August, 2007 08:41 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Tbird94lx]
lalienxx
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Testers needed!!!

The most bugs in big maps exe are fixed and it has all bug fixes from the main branch.
Please test it and report.
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#153957 - 21 August, 2007 08:44 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
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@lalienxx:
- How does the radarmap and the overview map work with the big maps???
- Do you have any new big maps for download and testing?
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#153960 - 21 August, 2007 09:13 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: RoWa21]
lalienxx
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 Originally Posted By: RoWa21
@lalienxx:
- How does the radarmap and the overview map work with the big maps???

Just like in the current main version.


 Originally Posted By: RoWa21
@lalienxx:
- Do you have any new big maps for download and testing?

No, we need to change the editor first. For now we need to test if everything works with old maps.
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#153998 - 21 August, 2007 02:26 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
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I will test, BTW which EXE should I use?

1235BM or
1239

I ask because I assume BM stands for big map
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#153999 - 21 August, 2007 02:36 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
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With such a huge increase in map size, don't we need to increase the number of soldiers that can occupy a map at one time? 20 (or so) might be fine in 160sq meters but it's not much if we're on a 1600sq meter map (let alone a 46340sq meter map). But, of course, if we increase the max number of soldiers that can be on the map at one time, don't we then cause speed issues?
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#154086 - 22 August, 2007 05:13 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Fume]
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 Originally Posted By: Fume
I will test, BTW which EXE should I use?

1235BM or
1239

I ask because I assume BM stands for big map


Take the exe with BM in index.
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#154088 - 22 August, 2007 05:17 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: ChrisL]
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 Originally Posted By: ChrisL
With such a huge increase in map size, don't we need to increase the number of soldiers that can occupy a map at one time? 20 (or so) might be fine in 160sq meters but it's not much if we're on a 1600sq meter map (let alone a 46340sq meter map). But, of course, if we increase the max number of soldiers that can be on the map at one time, don't we then cause speed issues?


I've already increased number of possible persons on map from INT8 to INT16. Tough there is more work to do like changing definition of NOBODY, increasing max number of soldiers and changing merc/civilian/npc/enemy indexes.
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#154124 - 22 August, 2007 09:13 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
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I'll volunteer for testing \:D
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#154146 - 22 August, 2007 11:49 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
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 Originally Posted By: Kermi
I'll volunteer for testing \:D

Get an exe and start working. ;\)
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#154157 - 22 August, 2007 12:19 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
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Roight.. Already got one.. but so for now, just test if the thing works on current maps?
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#154158 - 22 August, 2007 12:40 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
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 Originally Posted By: Kermi
Roight.. Already got one.. but so for now, just test if the thing works on current maps?


Yes, we don't have bigger ones yet.
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#154205 - 22 August, 2007 09:57 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
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This is a really cool idea. I'd love to see all the city squares expanded to maybe 240x240, while the less important ones like just random swamp are scaled down to maybe 120x120 or 100x100. I find there's a lot of tedium in slowly sneaking across generic forest when what i really want to do is finish my battle quickly. city maps being bigger would allow mappers to make the cities look less like ghost towns and more like they should be, bigger and more populous.
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#154307 - 23 August, 2007 01:51 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: ChrisL]
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Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..
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#154308 - 23 August, 2007 01:53 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
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oh, and also apparently savegames get corrupted.. Just found out after getting pissed off and trying to reload before the battle.. alt+l gives me "failed to load game". Anyone i should send this one to be examined?

edit: well.. the game kicked me to the main menu, clicked the "continue saved game" (or summat) button and loaded the same quicksave. loaded like a charm. Someone please tell me wtf is going on in here..


Edited by Kermi (23 August, 2007 01:56 PM)
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#154326 - 23 August, 2007 03:25 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
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 Originally Posted By: Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<
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#154342 - 24 August, 2007 12:50 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Majek]
lalienxx
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 Originally Posted By: Majek
 Originally Posted By: Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<


Can you try it on "normal" exe (before 1239 and current one) and look if this behaviour remains?
It looks like the changes on aiming system have broken something.
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#154369 - 24 August, 2007 04:36 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Majek]
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 Originally Posted By: Majek
 Originally Posted By: Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<


So, your rationale is that either you can't shoot what you see at long ranges (i've had visual upto 58 squares), or then you can't hit anything at all? One of the less rational statements i've heard in a while \:D
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#154370 - 24 August, 2007 04:37 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
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 Originally Posted By: lalienxx
 Originally Posted By: Majek
 Originally Posted By: Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<


Can you try it on "normal" exe (before 1239 and current one) and look if this behaviour remains?
It looks like the changes on aiming system have broken something.


I'll give it a go.

edit: 1235BM seems to work fine.


Edited by Kermi (24 August, 2007 05:17 AM)
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#154371 - 24 August, 2007 05:13 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
lalienxx
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 Originally Posted By: Kermi
 Originally Posted By: Majek
 Originally Posted By: Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<


So, your rationale is that either you can't shoot what you see at long ranges (i've had visual upto 58 squares), or then you can't hit anything at all? One of the less rational statements i've heard in a while \:D


People it's a bug and it will be fixed soon. Please don't start flame war here.
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#154373 - 24 August, 2007 05:21 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
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 Originally Posted By: Kermi
So, your rationale is that either you can't shoot what you see at long ranges (i've had visual upto 58 squares), or then you can't hit anything at all? One of the less rational statements i've heard in a while \:D

I'm saying that forcing them to "fix" a limiation will always break things.
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#154454 - 25 August, 2007 08:27 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Majek]
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I was thinking about the concept of putting the entire map of Arulco into a single tactical map, and had an idea: Perhaps a JA2: Arcade Mode mod? You start with a lot of cash, choose your mercs and their loadouts before entering the map (perhaps by having a matrix-style "Construct" level, where you get everyone prepared for a long haul), and enter from omerta. You are after that point unable to compress time, so you must keep your wits (and a whole lot of regen boosts) about you, as you journey down to Meduna and take out Deidranna in a single haul.

I'm not even remotely sure how possible that is, but it would be an interesting take on the normally very drawn-out games i play, where instead of sitting around training militia you'd have to use the single group of mercs and go all the way through in one go.
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#154457 - 25 August, 2007 08:54 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Obscuritan]
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@obscuritan: That is a very good idea.

After the bigmap project is done, we could add a new game style mode to the start screen. So the whole game just uses the tactical screen from beginning to end, except for the merc choosing at the beginning of the game...
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#154471 - 25 August, 2007 01:46 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Obscuritan]
lalienxx
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 Originally Posted By: Obscuritan
I was thinking about the concept of putting the entire map of Arulco into a single tactical map, and had an idea: Perhaps a JA2: Arcade Mode mod? You start with a lot of cash, choose your mercs and their loadouts before entering the map (perhaps by having a matrix-style "Construct" level, where you get everyone prepared for a long haul), and enter from omerta. You are after that point unable to compress time, so you must keep your wits (and a whole lot of regen boosts) about you, as you journey down to Meduna and take out Deidranna in a single haul.

I'm not even remotely sure how possible that is, but it would be an interesting take on the normally very drawn-out games i play, where instead of sitting around training militia you'd have to use the single group of mercs and go all the way through in one go.


I don't think that a very big map will be fast enough to play.
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#154488 - 25 August, 2007 11:43 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
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Heh. nice idea. Though if you'd choose to use some rarer guns, you'd need a truck to carry all the ammo \:D
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#154515 - 26 August, 2007 08:10 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
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i really like that. if the mapsize is used to full extend, I guess everything will slow down alot because the maps are about 175.000 times bigger. \:\(

however if the map are 3000x3000 they are only 750 times bigger which should be do-able with a high-end PC. the longest ranged weapon in the game sofar is the M224-mortar with a range of 3500m.
so if an editor to make such large maps is available, one could correct the range values of the weapons to realistic values.
the best thing about it is that a lot of tactics become useable that can't be done in 110x110 sectors.

thanks alot for this lalienxx and whoever else has done this, I've ranted about mapsize for long time and now everything will be fine.
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#154536 - 26 August, 2007 12:55 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: redgun]
Mysterious Dr.X
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Loc: Croatia
Hi guys!

Perhaps I'll taking the whole thing a step too far, but as soon as I saw your project I thought of something really cool. Wouldn't it be extremely nice if we would also increase the size of the single tile than only the size of the strategic map :D? I really only mean to increase it graphically in size. Yes I know, this change would require 'us' to subsidize almost every graphic currently in game. But on the other hand the result would be astonishing! Just imagine detailed mercs running over colourful grass or the pictures of the beautiful 'models' - which now really can be seen - in the lockers of Deidranna's army :).
Hmmm, but I guess we'll see Ja4 earlier than that :D.


Dr.X


Edited by Mysterious Dr.X (26 August, 2007 12:57 PM)
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#154547 - 26 August, 2007 02:50 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Mysterious Dr.X]
lalienxx
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Beta version of map editor with big maps support is ready. For now it will generate a new map with 320x320 tiles.
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#154550 - 26 August, 2007 03:22 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
lisac
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Loc: Austria
Now, that's some great news!
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#154562 - 27 August, 2007 01:25 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lisac]
lalienxx
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I'm waiting for bug reports.
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#154576 - 27 August, 2007 05:43 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
Dutchie
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Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
@ lalienxx

Mate, I'd love to help you test. I know the game very well, but I'm green at the mods etc. If you could tell me what to install, where to get it and what you'd like tested, I'll help as much as I can.

Apologies for asking, it might be obvious to you veterans, but not yet to me.
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#154581 - 27 August, 2007 06:35 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Dutchie]
lalienxx
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 Originally Posted By: Dutchie
@ lalienxx

Mate, I'd love to help you test. I know the game very well, but I'm green at the mods etc. If you could tell me what to install, where to get it and what you'd like tested, I'll help as much as I can.

Apologies for asking, it might be obvious to you veterans, but not yet to me.


Install the newest data from SVN, than get the big map exe from my site and start paying. Report any bugs to bug report address.

Read this first:
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/56723/page/1#Post56723
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/114168/page/1#Post114168
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/56269/page/1#Post56269
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#154582 - 27 August, 2007 07:26 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
Dutchie
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OK, will do. I don't have my flash ram at work today, so will download tomorrow and get cracking.

Thanks.
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#154596 - 27 August, 2007 08:38 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
Kermi
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Well, i don't know if this is any way related to the big maps project, but suddenly i'm getting CTD when trying to enter Alma mine sector. Other sectors work fine. Shall i nip you over a savegame?
Using version 1235BM.exe
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#154605 - 27 August, 2007 09:29 AM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: Kermi]
lalienxx
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 Originally Posted By: Kermi
Well, i don't know if this is any way related to the big maps project, but suddenly i'm getting CTD when trying to enter Alma mine sector. Other sectors work fine. Shall i nip you over a savegame?
Using version 1235BM.exe


Yes, send it with description to bug report address.
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#154675 - 27 August, 2007 03:08 PM Re: Big Maps Project [Re: lalienxx]
redgun
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Loc: Austria
i tried testing it; its not the SVN-version but DBB-mod.

the exe runs more stable than ever, I have far less CTD and less crashes in general, but i've noticed some things:

passing on items doesn't always work.
i had to select voice 3. the other ones weren't available.
sniping doesn't work very well anymore: 99 MKMS + 12 Accuracy + prone + bipod will miss about 50% hit at medium distances which is quite differnt from early versions.

i doubt this will help you, but i thought i'll post these things anyway. \:D \:D
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